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Royal commission on labour in india 1930 bombay vol i part ii

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1. , ='=:::;;=======1 , ON' :LABOUR~f;IN ,INDIA'- . ~' -ORAL EVIDENCE BOMBAY PRESiDENCY ~·n'. I-Part II .…
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  • 1. , ='=:::;;=======1 , ON' :LABOUR~f;IN ,INDIA'- . ~' -ORAL EVIDENCE BOMBAY PRESiDENCY ~·n'. I-Part II . '~'N<C;l'~.f'--.'l ! V'-ll I '1. . .--,-J,. ~o107 ,..,1' --..;c.~...if-~·-· OL.<JUTTA: GOVERNMI:~~ .. " INDIA "1 CENTRAL PUBLIOATIO!'! ~lu..': L 1980 ., II
  • 2. ROYAL COMMISSION ON LABOUR IN INDIA ..., ORAL EVIDENCE BOMBAY PRESIDENCY· < ,Vol. I-Part II BOMBAY I'IUNTRlI AT THE GOVr-:RNMJ.::o."'T CENTRAL PRESS 19"JO
  • 3. X : ~ ·2 .IV2-c;;t. F~ .l'~, I 0 107 .
  • 4. .- --" TAKEIr BBFOBIl 'fII& " , ROYAL COMMISSION ON LABOUR• IN lNDIA BOMBAY PRESIDENCY~ FIRST TllEETING KARACHI Wednesday, 1~tD.OctOJ,er 1~ l'uslnlT: The IU. ROD. :1. lL WIIlTLSY (C~). The R'. R .... v. So SBnn>"..... !UsmJ.e.R., p,e. Sir ISH'my R~ Xt.• K.C.S~. CJ.E. Sir At.Bul<D1IB lIumu.r. Kt.. C,B.E. Mr. A.. G. Crow. c.I.E., LCA )(r. K-uIm-_Dm AmmD.1I.LA.. 1Ir. :1omr CLxw. Mr. G. D. B....... Jl.L.A.. Mr. N. II. JOIlBJ, II.L.A. Dnr..,. C1uJu1o L&u., Jl.L.A. _ 11. II. LIt POD POWlIB. • Lieut.-CoI. A. J.lL R......... C.B.~, LII.8.(Ar_A_)., Mr. C. S. C. HARBISOIf. en., I.S.E., Chief Engineer. Lloyd.Barrage .... CaaaIs CoadnIetion. A·I. 7'.. ('1...._ : llr.a_,yoa .... &heChiefEDgineerof the IJDyd ~ aDd CaaaiB C_ _ _ t-Y... A·!. 10u haTt!! been good enough to submit to US&uryct.e.r statement on the 8Ub~te with ...mt:'a ~ ~ ooneernrd rela.tin,g to the work fcrwhit'h you are responsible. We shall shortly ~y • 'risi~ to _ for ourselves somet.hiDg abon' 'yOU' york. and limo¢ne. _ ..... that _ _ _ hedotaiuingy...... ""Ylenj!thto.day. You UTe told U3 'Very clearly in your meIJlOn.Ddmo. Ule variou.streams of migration m. whidt your labour is reennWG and i' appean til.. for -the most part it; ia eontraet Iaboart-Y_ , A-S. I an it thendonrthMyw dODOtleep.~r of the worhre011 your-wheme? -X, not nominal~ We bepaftOOld of daily attendeJKle of the total number aI people, and monthly _tryto_,hem ...to _ ....__ uoq....l;t;eo aod with _ to the diileftBt ...... of the ~ _ which >hey ...... and the _ _ _ ollaboar. A-4 lIa.- yea any tabulated dde=en !-y-. I bve go&; it in. ftMIgh fonD. ; Inri I m.n lrift yoa • sCalemen' at the ....arioua kiDda ol elllpIoyeee coming from. diftenDt _ _ ;( yoa _ like to han i'- A-6. ThaI. wiD MiD. «w:t"eetitMt of wita.t 7- b..., Wd .. !-Y,.; I will gne yeo tM oe-.l &gm.. ' _.-15-1
  • 5. 2 A-6. There is ODe point I should partioulady like to uk you whether that -record 1tb.ows the number of people who return over and over again to your- work: f-No. A·7. Then at each. re-engagemeut after they have been book home they are. as far as you are concerned, new labonr t-Ye6, that is right. The only thing we are intereated in ia the increase in the numbers. We wa.ut numbers~ if we can get them. A-S_ Would you ten Ushow you p~y the oontr&ctoro f Ant they paid monthly f-The oontraoton are paid M often B8 we can poaaibly meaaure u~ their work.. The work is. meaaured up onee .. month if the contractor is .. man. Wlth big oa.pital; otherwUe if he ia a man with small capita.l we meaau.se up ODce a week if neceu&ry. Our aim is to keep the small contratltor if possible, and meaanre his work &8 often &II he wanta money. A·D. You have no knowledge of or reaponaihility for the method by which the men them.aelves are pa.id by the contractors f-No. As mentioned in my written statemeut complainta loon come to US if the people &1'9 not being paid properly~ They come up in numbera before the Government officer and la,,.we ha.ve been awindled U or .. under~ paid by the contractor". We then get hold 0 the oontr&etor, U8e our- good offices and Q8 that things are put right. We have no real power to make tbe oontractor deal sqaarely with his labour, hut I think that on the whole. when we take him to task 'Severely and ten him thatthere is trouble ahead of him. he ffill!. into line with n8 and triea to oorrect his waY" A~10. Is the ohief complaint tllat payment is delayed too long I-No,"'" The chief ~ompl&int it ahoutswindling over the measurements ofwork done by each group O'f labour. Generally they wGrk in groups of 10 or 15. Practically all the work ia done on pieee~ 'Work eynem. The contractor puta just a few men Gil a muater to dO' miscellaneous workp .and those men, I think. aTe pa.id fa.irly regularly; otherwise he could not get them, fGr no one wanta to go on a muster. A"H. Does he pay monthly, fortnightly O'r weekly ?-1 think he pays them weekly. It iB a very small p&yment becaoae m06t of the people a.re indebted to him j he hu given 'them very heavy adv.ncea; :,tlayathem only a little just a day before the bazaar 1M' grain aDd settles up his 80· &oOO1ID:ta a.t the end of the 8eaa6n" . A·12. Bow long do you a.nticipate the constructional work will continue !-It will oontinuetilll9M. The great bulk of it will be finished iD June 1932when'W'aterwill be let into the oanala. After that it will be a matter of (lompleting outlym,: and miacei• . laneoua works. We are aiming at ha.ving in the yefit 1932 something like 400,000 units,. if w.pouibly ..... A-IS. 'What mea.ning do you attach to the word n unite" in that connection 1-lt meen. !&bo.. employed throughout the yeer. W. take the monthly totals end add them up. As I ,aid, we hope to get 4OO,OOO~ I have BOme figuree if they will be of interest to you. _ A-I4.. That will be the :maximum on oomtructioneJ lPOJ'ktJ f-Yee,. that it what we wa.nt on oonstruotional work. A-I4&. The ••pply 01 !&honr hall been I... I,hen 'you could employ I~o..iderably Jess. loangiveYOllolleortwo:6gures, In 1926 oar maximum in llnYonemon~hwaa 16.271 in the month of Fehruary 1926. 0 .. miDimum ..... in Augnat 19211. 6,769. The total number of unita on themonthlybaais for the year waa9"1,OOO. In 1927 oar ma:rimum. was 16,154., which wae ratherlen than thepreviou.. year; batthe monthly average waa more because we had 142.291 units as against 97,000 for tbe previOWf. yea.r. In 1928 our monthly maximum rose to 26,024.. oW' minimum to 12,376. The total ~ployment fer that year was. 22{),944. For this year" oar monthly maximum rose to 38.000 in the month of !larch and the minimum 10 far (up to the end of July) was 19~600, whioh is greator than our m.nmuw in 1921. Thtt total Dumber of uuite ~mployed is 2Ol),866 for seven mouth. 'Of this year. So we shaJi probably get olose upon 300,000 thia year. A-16. 1 am notquitle ilieMyet how you reokon the-unit. The le.rgeetnumberemployed at one tim. hitherto is 36,000 !-Yes, thet ill right_ Correctly i. is 38,300. A-1ft. How do you convert the.t into units '-I h&n t&ken each month', figures and ....dad them up. end to get the average divided them by 12. A-I? Jlf'. Cli./!: That comea to S8,.OOOin enemonth ?-Ye.. This year, formtance. in January it was 28.907. in February 35,037; in March. 38,~ in April31,72t, in M;ay 30,000 odd, in J1IIUI20,OOO odd end in Ju~ 19,000 add_ Thet to~ up to 206,856 which ia the ~ I ga.. yo. juet DOW_ A-I8- PAe ONi,.",..: I notice that you. IDggest that aome of tbese workeJJJ ma.y become settlere wben your echeme is completed ?-Yea.,
  • 6. 3 .!.-III. Wh... your ""he",..'" rompleted. will ~"l'."" be gi_ to thoae ..ho ha... - ....n ,,~ OIl oonst<uotional work !-No, I do not thiDk the.. will be lIllY particulAr ~.......sbOWJl- Itlw'ltiti.."""'"'Ollof..-omi.... Firotof aIItbe Bomb&yGooom- men• ..nn. I preeumo, look after<heir own Hoek, _ is the people within "'" confinee of the Bombay-"""Y- Thepeopleof..hom I modeputienlar......ti......th,,_ from OlIo "PIandO of Gujuat. who .... preot;y b&dIy oil; Obey ."" • _ ~ rainfall, _ tbey h..... gnoduaIIy drifted to our ___ ~ I_like to _ ~ eettled heoauae they haft stuck to tiheirwork throughou.' the year; they have ~ been~_of &he h.h,...her_ ....-....ked _'''''JOEIyfor three ,....,_",,0 going tiD $.heir homes. It is obvieal tI:lM theae people haft DID attaehmeni to ~eir­ birth-pIt.oe. That is prob&bIy d... to -..om... - .'-20.. Caa you. ten us ...hai is ~ Dumber who W'OUId be _ttJel8 !-I think 'ibia _ _ people of whom 1_ opeaIcing _dn_'-'-' 2,000- ThaO is m.... wo:nen and ohUdren. Eve.ryone.. of comse,. expreasee .. will~ to aeUJe in ~ area.. ' - - they thiDk they will get I!OIDOOhiDg f"" nothing; I iIliDk """ is ,he geooDII idea.. . '!'-21_ 10 y.... ...-ri......ride...... de.IiDg with heolth _ aaniiuy anangemenlo, I DOtioe that YOIl say t.b..t exceptwhen ~borne epidemiat. are &nti~ or'" is par1iiculady sca.t'O!~ IU) special arrangements are made on scattered wOl'b for .. drinkiog _pply. " .... beiDg genenJly obtained from wells in the flew.,. 01 th..- worb1--Y_~ .!.-~ Are th_ ....!Is tested to ... _ they...., fit for drinkiag '-No. 10 India "'" peopIearevery~le~.tfindingout"'heretheycan~good..ier; animmediateenquiry is .uw.y.m_from the local residenta as to which IS t.he bestwell inthe viaiDity andyou lind e.erybody f10ckiDg to "'" porti..u..r well.. A-!1. y~ but in Chese dayw ~ are known kt he such subtle di&erences in .....ter ~ttbe_infonned_-..r or_nO _ahrays _ _ _ or _ _ may be aoy iafeeaOD. in $hat. water!-Quite SOy but direct,Jy we lee the smallest sign of any~1JTOIlg, OIU' hospital usiatant is OIl theapot,. and we have the wa.ter-.sted.. . , it is geaeraIJ:y known whiok is he good well; we have Dever had. a caseW"hel'e a wen.. .. be good _ IIrou@ht lIllY _ to &he people. A-M. WenId it be a matter 01 lIllY _, dilIicalty _tperiodical _ 01_"" from ......lIasbenldbemad.by""'.td!-N•• ldono..hink_ _be~gnMditiealty. We oonId _down ......pIe oI_to be _ .. K__ .!.-2' I would melte "'" •_ _ for the ~ .....my of the _ of the TOrkms !-Yes, I think it is • Tfiq good ~tioL .!.-ll5- n.-it might be J'O"'ibluo disallow ~from_whi... ,....d..ogerouo .. _ l-Y... in the .... 01 wells you oonId do_" .!.-!6. Yoo _ ha...somenoti...p,Iton th_ _ _ had been tested andJIOO"'d ~tisfactory t-l bink~wvold haYe to put guards OD.. I do no$- think notices ale m""h good in Iodia. The people_ driDk the _lor '"' _ read OlIo ""a.. .aft~rwvda. ,A.:!'i. I no~oe tbt yon aIso.y ii is difficult to p.t'eTfIM the ~ body of labov from driDbngdiredfrom ~ riTel'!-Y~ we han-gmatdi8ieuItyiD. Sukkur, although Ye' putpardaall theway alon,e-. We generally pu'o.n&D~..soldier~aadyou wiD seehim -das~ <oI~ to.top .. pt.rty 1Nm driDbng from ....Ii...._ Althoogh they _ they are DOt to drink from the river. and although a water-aupply is pnrrided forihem, they ....mgo to he river. have a ..,...Q, aDd then drink from the rive!'. . .!.-!8. I rooognie _. dilli04lty: .till .. good deol_d be do... by ~, _ _ iD the m.a~r!-Y~"We" gift lectaree _ the people. We seod our sanitary impecto!8 round ill" _hip; they ioII the people why they ebenld not driDk _ _tor_Thy they eboold gei _ frnm the proper __ A·~ Inyourmem.onadmD. you tellasthat t:M balk of the labotarfonecm~aoheme is not UDder -.he WOC'tmeD~ Compeua1ioD Ad ?-Tha' is eo. .!.-30. WenId you fnrtber deli". iIle wan! .. _ ". distinguishiDg "'-who .... from th_who .... not !-I sbenld _95per .........._pro--..L The-.ly pro_ a.ftotdecI. all we will. he able '"show-you: uSuk.t.ar~ ill tolhoeeemplo,oedin he mriN!icN .....-ork:!;;aop,.tihe SlGae cb -,.. shop aDd. t.ho!e de.liDg widt. eIeciiric pawer. Th_ &Ie &he ..n1y people who_ ander_A", _ _ _ _ ebope .... _ . _ . _ _ .... _inwhiolo _ _ iOpeopIewudl. _-31_ I ........ wiill _ . _..... h......... _. yon p _ _ the . . nquins aDd yuu leU _ tha~ yoa: deal wi.. .-cidenta which ue DOt coftled by lIt.e Aet. as if ~'" ...,.eoaovend t-Y.. TIle Ad 0MDfII into forae aft,v tAe work Ud. stuk!d.. ""l'1l~' my ...n- ...GODiRacSioDal.paeer I Aa'ft always.fek ..., tihere are a lot of.ery"'" _ _ _ the A.'""", into foreeh.gg 1 UntbeBom_y »flY 1~1.
  • 7. ~=::"-~"A= ~e~:;"-=~put.~~:-~'-:::.~tIaat.~ I'i . tel ~ A-3iL l_it _ _ nay _ _ _-w.for _ _ iDl.... _.IibonI__ _ ?-No. n_,....__1_ h".... wi... tile ~~_; nO &blia DOt tile eMe,.. ~ propIe~. 0dI0at:is ~,wIteIt titey an ··adb"l" IJt.eir ...._,...,.-,.- ___ liIoen.l..-_I_ A-33..II.,.I_n_~eumpIe"_ _ il_"'~"' __Act ~I t.lWt.k it ..--ld be posiWe UIIIl it is ....- He A-M. T......... _Ia........."... ~!-I _ _ _ ..~.... _ r....a..r_"'.........__..........-.. I_i._ _.._ ·.......ba<- ....·...rupriseifi> ........ _~ ~ ... aII ..• p. _10....... _ ~ ~GLditicwr.,.. _we"Mei:a Sial.. 1_eeadin.. ftidt aft'DOI aamped ... ill fadorie&. I ilUnk dteft shoaid be ... ftai........ We.-W IItOft' ~ ia th~ ......of wd' *.th &cope of Ute Act.. A-35. Hant,..... My ~_ to .................... _1........ _ ..'<1>' be kough, _theAd!-1 will'",...........a ""PY 01...,. _ _ .....bjocl to u.. _",'0I.1ndia. Tb.-y __ abeody"-'" ~ 01. iDa - g tI>e .... _ the A.... I wiII_.pcUl 0I.....m.g il "':r--""'- A-3L 'numk,.... ihat 1I"Orlld _ ws8aL Yoa My: "Xo .~hIa imjWuceeeal iD _.fficieDc-yol~GD_ ...... oIwwkdoalt wilh by_"- Me _ _ _ iD ~t ~.. And thea ill reply 10 oar ~~ 'U!lderthat ~ .. :o ... ~ medodls eI ~ ~ ~KYyoc.y: UEdao!:atioa of tIae ...... to tab a gre-ater prid& ill ---.llahoar &!e1II8 to me tile 0DIy rflicieDt:a:.~ 01. ....i·.. !I'N- ~..' Do,-:,m.wif iMnt is: UIJ" reward (wiDe.! ' . . ,. ____ _ haft'" -u..f__ IJ"riGd_ ha___ ---"'t.......,.all 'IVWUd!d ....... iI. _1Pft.l!-Not .. Oattua ~~ p.ido: .... .nL. It _ _ _ _ _ _ ~wolI._pi<k.-_._~ ...pp..._ - eepJoym.est i:a pl8eNDC~ 10 lIMItyaruy _piG) '.or ~ ~ ... B!'Il wwkiD2 OD ~ dn.g~ IQ~Talms .actwe haTe • ~ &IDOIIDI of -..ski!W .t:e.r ahoat Ute.....u,.... B In!1iDd. sa&l't .... iB"~ ~ ~ it pat _ ...,,"~_..:l _01_ In- _!oe~pUd~ __ twt...; ........... :!op"' ...... mOft'- ..... Jie. W'OIIld set.... onti.DHy laboalft' ~. the cu:..lL 'Ikal. Jac.. we ~ _ iDeftMe aM eIici&c]" fJf ~ wudmea.. A-37. Woaldn ...... COI"I't"dtoaay ...,aay... -no-....s .eL....}m._orl; )au .. oppwW:ai'Y" im~ his paiin..?-I ...... DOt. pd ..... ~-vd u a ..-nl statPlllellL So fat' MOW wmb aft ned. 5IIdl ~ aM tfRk") ___ ami If ~ aft tibJy to ftaW::. ia SiDd. dte-y ... at ~ lakeD., by _ .. aa u:: ,..O,N motiDg. A-3S. .P. 8e&11ri: l1aat pam. .. ~ laho.r • _tad W--'" ....:~::'Il ctinetla....... lorwhid>,..... .... _I>Io!-I ...__ tlIe .... 1ipnB,. loa, 1';"_ _ :rlllat _ 8 to 10.- _L _the _ .. _~ dire<CIy .,... A-3!l. to Ihlo 8 ... ID .-_'-'iir..... labaur_ _ _~:'_t.d wid ~ ... - . . . medieal ..n.t _ _ ...~ ___ .......- !-y.., .. ~ hat DOlia pn.ttiee.. We did DOl1Ofttaa ~caIl_ . . ~, " ___ we iesued. aotice tbi ambvlGn woatd be 'ME 'w., fer ... ae.hll eI. am~. ~ is to My far die ordi:DarT dilIiriktiraa of qaiD:iDe. etc. Bat _ ~ W'& do __ of • -....~_~ ~'-i'" Go.. . _......... 100-. A-4&.. fa retped 01. _ I ___ .... ad........ _ lie _!-Y«<. I hiDk _ ......hf*.~" •cIocoioIed ......... to _ _ _ ......... -.t ........ A-41. Thfte.ao~of.....iadiftlctC.. l18'rice1-'fteIe ... Cfttaia _ _t ol ~iD <be ..."-IDio.... _. _ .... ..,........ 1 IiliDa: _ _ ... _ leakage hot OM people .... 'IlIlto wiIIias ...__ lo _ _mII. A-42. WlIat diiLltazl! ...w it_ate .. ~ if .. wk_ .. 1M ~ .-e ~, _lMd..eealmH ~"'-e simply C!GaId .... iL Y_ IIaTe to ftaII!!Bbar dtal ... __.........,.~__.......~ .......... -- .,..-ol....,._..,._..... gina. ~ will .... _ _I..to I.a-"- .... _ - ..,. eGaD'J7 and ~ilrift5 ell '0oar...... lIIo.-rtlaai .. prokWy ~ )eoea __at II-.. by ........'-'.on. The l a " - _ ....... Ie...-..... ~ aadelohim by lite ftIIttrvierl'. ne. he_ye ....IMv-.GOi&lidN!':Dt~t."'''''; l1ri1l by to geC 011. 'Co theG~l &1IShr.- To ~dtea"' ••ve-I fttfJ-- oihilily. I ......... taU "P ... ~ ,.... __....... _ Woo f<DL B. is ft"JI' •
  • 8. 5 o!tea. pd &0 CCQ'; 1 .bIe lois ~ to guap of laboo.r I'IIIIDiDg ....y without ftIMOIL, 'TItere isaometi_ a ~ lJutwe-have bad euesol ~ of meo.si.mply going away_....,._Oized___....,....._goO ....y with mt.herbigad_ _ --.A-U. I WWI tryiDg to look ., il . . - &0.0 the point _ ......, _ the J-.- "tl!e:llnelftS. WoaJd there be .. great impiowemcat in the conditioDS if '&he l.a.bour were clealt_:thclo~taIIy_""with_aid _ _ t-l _ til.... woaW. ~. A-K. Bat y-. _ _ ~ woaId he _PUDed by grM$ _ _ inconnnieoce to Go.eziDDUil 7-11; WOIdd eerlaiDJy entail. greM liability to Govem- meat.. Wbe&lt.er1ill.U Iiahili'lf woaJd .Ia tdv becIGme lID ~ ODO does ao$ kDo9. We should -..ou""the ~ COIlWolihat ibe eontD,et:.or-hu 0T'er the 1aJ:tc:Ja:r8'. 'l'br _ _ ill able to fo!lo1F the runaway ~ hoclt to ma ~ _ goO him bock ogoiB. We shoaId reqGire • wry big orgar;""..... to ....we as to ao ~ A-4.5. Y_saymyourlltaiemeat.thata!though it is not an ohligation of GOTeI'DDl.eat. otiII medical _ ill loop.!aUer by Go.emmeD' ageucioe f-Y... A..{6. YOlldoth.h..ther ... _oIba.....uty _Go_tal __ t.baa ... pan 01 yow- ""P"""ibility for _labourer 1-That is 80- .1-4.1. n 16econtradordos DOlaccepi it .. an ohligatioa to look after fum. in thai Y.Y you ooMider ii to be .. mere ch.aJ:i:ty to do 90. Are not the labourets in .. difficuli ~tioa! I was Hying to view it from tihM point of Yie1r. Is ft not desirable that .. sptem sbould be _ by ..bioI> ....,.,.oaldbe looked "l""'''_body's .......... t At; present is is oei~ the CODHaetor'"s DOr the ~8 zespollBibility I-WeD. it. i!I suppo;ed to be Ule conCndor"s. I quite a68e thaa; it; W'OIlId be to '&he intereslll of _I"-"r to be d.anitoeIy _ _body auoL I.boald uy preferably _0-....- ......L It to .... all -....uy grM$liaIJility. I <101Ild g;.., Iigmoo. The coot 01 $be medical ozganrration on thia &Cheme worb OIlt ~ roughly Rs. 80.000 .. year. I lappeD to be looking after it m,-. It might beve go... up to ..... or 1hree Iakbs 01 ftlpee5 if we had allowed iaddiste to uvetheirway_ I hMe .. aeheme deYiaed on prac- t;ica.llinea from. t.hela.ym.ants pointef new. 80 far we have met all the calls made upon ... _ the..,.. is cmly Bo. 80.000 peryeK. That ......... to a_.O·25 per ....t. 01_ ......a&l er;penditme. A-l8.. 8;' AIQlSa2.er 11SITIIf: You. _y in yourwri*len evideBce under the head. "Ua- _ploymeal·· ..."<here_doUitely.... goodgroandafaraay ........l'loymoa.problem inSind." .lint... WuDd_ goiDg roUDd Karaebi a gteald..! of anemploymeat. Y_ day ..hell we Tisit.ed &be Porl- Tt-uA workmen~& housea we saw &. gre&" many worked wbo..... >booogbt.. oaghl to be 1I'Od
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    Jul 23, 2017
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